Urgent request how to work with scale

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Caddy
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 6:35 pm

Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by Caddy » Fri May 29, 2015 11:01 am

Bonjour Eric

I used the search already. But nothing to find with „scale“.

I had already created a detail drawing at a scale 1/1, paper size like DIN A4 with full size 210/297 mm.

At the drawing a flange with a diameter of 160 mm.

Next I want to creat a drawing to show an assembly at a scale 1/2, same paper size as before.
Printer setting.png
Printer setting.png (33.95 KiB) Viewed 4940 times
Drawing size.png
Drawing size.png (23.86 KiB) Viewed 4940 times
I expected that there should be enough space to put 4 flanges each with 160 mm onto the paper.

Up to this point: no problem.

Next I’d copied the flange’s outline from the detail drawing and tried to insert into the assembly drawing! Do you know what happened? The flange tooks the same space at the paper as it looks at the detail drawing! I took a dimension tool and measure and what I read was really not a surprise: 320 mm!!!
Flange on paper scale 1to2.png
Flange on paper scale 1to2.png (125.82 KiB) Viewed 4937 times
Please show me the way to solve.

Greetings from Germany
Hubert

debenriver
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Location: Maine USA and Suffolk England
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Re: Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by debenriver » Fri May 29, 2015 11:17 am

Good Morning Hubert


Draw your first flange on a plan or layer with the scale at 1/1.

Make a new layer or a new plan with scale at 1:2

You set the scale in the Window >> Layers/Pages... menu

Copy the 1:1 flange and paste it to the 1:2 plan or layer. RealCADD will ask "Scale objects from 1:1 to 1:2?" Click yes and the flange will paste at 1:2 scale.

Another option is to change the size of the 1:1 flange using Action >> Resize and resize it to x= 0.5, y = 0.5 and then change its scale to 1:2 on the Edit pallet. But this is not such a good way.

George

Caddy
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 6:35 pm

Re: Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by Caddy » Fri May 29, 2015 12:06 pm

debenriver wrote:Good Morning Hubert


Draw you first flange on a plan or layer with the scale at 1/1.

Make a new layer or a new plan with scale at 1:2

You set the scale in the Window >> Layers/Pages... menu

Copy the 1:1 flange and paste it to the 1:2 plan or layer. RealCADD will ask "Scale objects from 1:1 to 1:2?" Click yes and the flange will paste at 1:2 scale.
Good Morning George

Oh boy, you have the whole day in front of you, nice for you. I'm still trying to make my day.

I did trying as you wrote above. The result is what I claimed. But there was no question from the app. As you already know I did some translation work and I discovered also the question in the english language part but this was missing in the german part! I think Eric will go to clarify that.
debenriver wrote: Another option is to change the size of the 1:1 flange using Action >> Resize and resize it to x= 0.5, y = 0.5 and then change its scale to 1:2 on the Edit pallet. But this is not such a good way.

George
That's what I found out later as I'd started this thread already. It works and I can stay with it until Eric will improve.

Thank you George

Greetings from Germany
Hubert

debenriver
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Re: Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by debenriver » Fri May 29, 2015 12:42 pm

Hi Hubert

And it's also a lovely sunny morning here in Rockland, Maine! We went from Winter to Summer with no Spring this year, which is a bit of a shock to the system!

I guess the protocol to bring up the rescale question must be missing from the German version – that is a pain! I'm sure Eric will fix it quickly. It is a much better/faster way.

When you Resize and then change the scale in the Edit pallet, this works fine on fairly straightforward objects. But if it is a complex object with a lot of groups, specially nested groups, it doesn't seem to work quite so well and not everything gets the new scale. If you ungroup everything in the object and then change the scale and click the Enter/Return key this seems to do it.

I sometimes have to do it a couple of times to get the new scale to "stick".

Hope the rest of your day is good!

George

Caddy
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 6:35 pm

Re: Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by Caddy » Fri May 29, 2015 1:59 pm

Hi George

Be glad to have some sunny days. Over day it's here very stormy, at late afternoon we have some sunny hours, sometimes.

I don't know if it depends on the system. For me it's Mac OS latest edition. I tried to start my Mac as an english user - he does. Everything comes in english also RealCADD. But still the same result - that wasn't really wondering me. No improvement. I changed my Mac back to the origins. I use RealCADD 4.41b4 for Mac OS. We'll see what happened when Eric is going to do something.

Have a nice day
Hubert

debenriver
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Re: Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by debenriver » Sat May 30, 2015 1:03 am

Hubert ...

I don't know – I run Mac OS X 10.10.3 and RealCADD 4.41b4, just like you.

I tried changing my Mac to German and then RealCADD was all in German which was great.

When I tried a copy and paste from a 1:1 layer to a 1:2 layer I got this message OK:
Bildschirmfoto 2015-05-29 um 20.48.20.png
Bildschirmfoto 2015-05-29 um 20.48.20.png (20.89 KiB) Viewed 4874 times
Which is a heartening international mixture!

But I don't understand why you are not getting it ...

George

Caddy
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Re: Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by Caddy » Sat May 30, 2015 9:05 am

Hi George

You did very nice. This gave to me the courage to try again. It's really a tricky game.

With my old drawing that was imported as DWG - everything and every time I tried I didn't succeed! Never!

Creating a new drawing just with 2 layers and 1 form on each layer - I will be asked "Scale the objects from...."!!!!! So I think "fine"! :D
but but but.... this was done just with simple copy and paste. If I go to use "Paste special..." what is requested if you want to keep the objects on the certain layers as in the original source, this method doesn't work and don't ask me again.

So I tried to copy a single object from my old drawing - no success.

I tried more and more and more .... Heres what I found out:

-- It's depends on something what is related to the old imported DWG-drawing. But not to the drawing itself. It seems to me that the issue is related to the "old" objects!
-- If I go to create a new object (circle, square...) somewhere in the "old" drawing then it's depending on the sequence how you make your selection.
-- If you call "select all" then there is no success because of the "new" object is the last one in the list of the selected objects!
-- If you make your selection one by one and the first object to be selected is one of the newest objects - these are created after the import - then you will have the success and you will be asked by RealCADD "Scale the objects.....".

But nevertheless the "Paste special..." doesn't work.

For me it's a question of philosophy how to deal with scale in CAD. I learned from other CADs that scale has to do with paper sizes only and nothing more. That means every object in CAD has the same scale or with a better speech: there is no relation of scale between the objects. I.e.if an assembly of objects takes a place of 20 x 15 m in reality and if you want to print it out to a DIN A4 or US letter paper size then you have to set the printer scale to 1:100 to fit the drawing to the paper. Based on this philosophy there is nothing to deal with scaling inside of CAD, no question "Scale the objects...." and makes coding much easier. The only relation is to calculate the page break frame, but that comes then automatically with the paper settings :D

Have a nice weekend
Hubert

debenriver
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Re: Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by debenriver » Sat May 30, 2015 12:36 pm

Hi Hubert

I think it works fine with ⌥⌘V (Edit >> Paste special...) provided you don't check the "Through layers" box. I have not ever checked this because I don't really know what it does! I use ⌥⌘V to position the object I am pasting where I want it – and the Anchor feature to use attraction to an object on the layer I am pasting to.

I don't have any problems with drawings imported from DXF or DWG – the scaling feature works with both ⌥⌘V (provided Through layers is not checked) and ⌘V. With a DXF import sometimes there is initially no Active layer – you have to make sure to go to Window >>Layers/Pages ... and make one of the layers active – otherwise things don't work very well. But I have not noticed this with DWG (which I don't use much because the programs I import from can only export in DXF)

To move objects from one layer to another I generally make the layer I want to move to the Active layer, but leave the Selection and Attraction boxes checked. So moving something from Layer 1 to Layer 2 – I would have Layer 2 Active; select the object on Layer 1 and copy or cut and then paste – the object will paste into Layer 2 and rescale to Layer 2 scale. Either with ⌥⌘V or ⌘V.

If I want to select all of Layer 1 and paste it into Layer 2 (assuming other layers and objects) – then I make Layer 1 Active – uncheck the "Selection on all visible layers" – or make the other layers not visible – either works. Select all on Layer 1 and copy or cut. Make Layer 2 Active (it will automatically become visible) and paste. The objects will all paste into Layer 2 and rescale to Layer 2 scale.

Perhaps Eric will explain what the "Through layers" checkbox is for :?: :D

George

Caddy
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 6:35 pm

Re: Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by Caddy » Sat May 30, 2015 2:19 pm

Hi George
debenriver wrote: I think it works fine with ⌥⌘V (Edit >> Paste special...) provided you don't check the "Through layers" box. I have not ever checked this because I don't really know what it does! I use ⌥⌘V to position the object I am pasting where I want it – and the Anchor feature to use attraction to an object on the layer I am pasting to.
I’d tried it. The checkbox „Through layers“ was always checked. I copied from a first drawing 2 objects - each placed on a separate layer and pasted them into the second drawing. That creates the additional layer accordingly to the first drawing, what is well, but scaling doesn’t work and also there was no question "Scale the objects.....". I have done that many times with always the same result.

While the next tries the checkbox „Through layers“ wasn’t checked. The same procedure as before. The result: no additional layer, the objects were copied to 1 layer and after quitting the question "Scale the objects....." with "yes", the scaling was happened as desired.

Be happy, if you don’t have any problems with your DWGs. I heard a lot of times that the import of DWG creates often problems and not so precise as wanted. Before I come to RealCADD there wasn’t any application with an acceptable DWG import - beside of some very professional ones. I was satisfied with RealCADD. After RealCADD there was annother application with good results but there were other features missing.

There are existing more than 200 DWG drawings holding my older projects and created at a MS Windows system before. But I don’t want anymore 2 different computers on my desk. I don't know how it could be that a DWG is differing to another DWG, but it seems to be possible.

But now I’ve tried a tricky game - as an example 2 groups each on a certain layer: I’ve grouped all objects I want to copy per layer, create an additional rectangle at one of those layers, then first select the additional rectangle, after this the groups, ⌘C, go to the second drawing, ⌘V, create an additional layer, cut out one group from the first layer, then insert the clipboard into the additional layer. This workaround does what I want for the moment.

Greeting from a rainy Germany
Hubert

Eric Pousse
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Re: Urgent request how to work with scale

Post by Eric Pousse » Sat May 30, 2015 5:28 pm

Hubert, George,

Theoretically, RealCADD asks to change the scale of objects to be paste (with or without ⌥) when the scale of the objects is different than the scale of the active layer.

If you have a file which doesn't work this way, please send it to me.

And Hubert, can you send to me one of your DWG files which creates problem to be imported ?

Thanks.
Eric Pousse

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